The Librarian's Art of War

[D10]

Biology of a Dataloid: Zeikke can designate himself or another object and manipulate its proportions in every way. This can be used to, on contact, safely disperse kinetic energy. This manipulation moves in scale with his speed and agility.
Cooldown: N/A

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Tier One

Faded Target: Zeikke is immune to targeting

Tools of War: Zeikke may summon items of his within 10 meters of himself or into his hands/onto his body at will.

Extensions: Zeikke can use his base ability to generate constructs made of metal relative to his synthesis tier. They are very simple and contain no abilities but the capacity to have an ability module. This module would be a slotted synthesis item bestowing abilities, but otherwise Zeikke can create one construct per post. He can only have a maximum of 2 at a time per tier.

Far Reach: Zeikke can augment an ability or skill to be an AoE instead of whatever type they are, i.e. Target or On-contact. The range is 5 meters per tier. He just has to indicate the area the AoE occurs. Zeikke is not affected by his own AoE-augmented abilities/skills.

Flow: Zeikke may grant himself the ability to flow through space scaling to his speed and agility.

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Tier Two

Much MP: Zeikke's MP is raised by 25 per tier.

Shifting Shillelagh: Zeikke trade places with his synthesis items at any time. | 3 Posts CD

Option Select: D10 may affect his synthesis with the base ability and himself simultaneously.

Quasipresence: Zeikke may passively become intangible. He can function properly in uninhabitable environments.

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Tier Three

Mass Production: Zeikke can generate the extra matter for his base ability to allow full manipulation of proportions without losing integrity. Essentially instead of thinning out the objects, it does not compromise density.

Weaponmaster: Zeikke can manipulate his constructs to act in accordance to his strength, speed and agility stats but controlled via telekinesis. He can now have a maximum of 4 constructs per tier.  

Consume: Zeikke may actively consume synthesis and inanimate objects, destroying or converting them to his own possession. Destroying synthesis items heal him moderately per synthesis tier.

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War Never Changes, But The Hour Does: D10 has access to the element of Time.

Quantum Touch: D10 gains Telekinesis from his base ability, allowing himself to manipulate not just himself or his synthesis, but also inanimate objects. His telekinesis is based around his strength tier, allowing him to push/pull from great distances. This also furthers the complexity and fluidity of his manipulation, allowing him to disjoint completely, however he can only have up to five disjointed bits of himself and with the help of Mass he can create physical copies from these disjointed parts.

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The ISOmorphic Reality of Things: D10's base ability now enables him to create various non-magical things from the matter he creates. The amount he may generate is limited by his strength's threshold. It can be anything from rocks to water, however they will have no special properties. Also, his telekinetic abilities allows him to wield things within his physical limitations without having his mobility impeded. Also, his base ability allows him to manipulate the world around him as if it were him or his synthesis.

[Marigold Darkson]

BA: I am assuming everything before the actual effect of the ability is flavor text. Tell me if I am incorrect. As per warping, you will be limited to where you'll be able to teleport to, if the area you're attempting to go to is being observed. Just a warning.

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Tier One:
Scan: You cannot know the stats of an opponent, only the character tier. Also, you'll need to bump this to Tier 2

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Tier Two:
Inject: You're currently doing too much with this ability. You can choose to inject one or the other, or both, but if you choose both, you will not be able to double the effects by using both MP and DP.

Extract: This skill is too vague, so I will be asking what you intend to do with it.

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Tier Three:
Morph: You're doing too much with this. Choose between being able to flow through space, shift through inanimate objects or extensions of your body.

Zero Sum: Please explain what a "mechanical energy" is.

[D10]

No he's literally creating a database of information. Nothing stays in his short-term. Essentially he has eidetic memory over every single thing any one of his senses picks up. And you mean they can still attack me, correcT? I know it's not an absolute dodge, don't worry.

It's an extension of the information-collecting ability of the base.

KK I'll make that an augment later on if that's fine.

Since flight can be granted by itself at T1 with max speed and agility, I don't see why this can't be an extra effect. However, moving through inanimate objects AND the capacity to morph my body is a little much to be in the same skill and have flight imo. Can I choose between the latter two?

I actually asked if it were possible to negate the force of physical attacks and was told I could. By mechanical, I didn't know what to use besides force and physical, so I mean energies such as kinetic or potential. Can I just say that physical attacks are affected? I.e. a hammer comes down and I negate its force, however I couldn't do it to a fireball. Essentially it'd just effect the melee game.

[Professor Velox]

I did the "Art of ____" first, you slut.

[D10]

no

Sun Tzu did

[D10]

Bump

[D10]

Made changes to T2 as well

[D10]

Reworked

[Game Master]

How is information alone enabling you to dodge with apparent reflexes on par with what is usually reserved for T4 speed? Simply knowing that an attack is happening at that moment doesn't necessarily make you prepared enough for it to guarantee a dodge.

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My general opinion on abilities that increase DP by 1 per tier has usually been to make them Tier Two abilities. Please raise the ability to tier two to keep it as is.

So you want to, at Tier 1, be able to make your body as hard, dense, tough, durable, and consequently as difficult to cause damage to as you desire?

I'm allowing a Tier One ability in a recent tree to siphon 10 MP per hit, and it is not increased with each they tier. I'm not inclined to let you have a twenty MP per tier siphon effect at Tier Two. It should be between five-ten MP per strike.

Explain the exact intent behind the phrase "locking their processes into space". You can only inject as much MP or DP as you could Siphon.

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So you want total control over your body and how you shape it, passively, in a sixty-five cubic foot space, assuming you only went the simple route and become a giant cube. Such vast manipulation of matter and mass so freely is not acceptable at tier three.

So, you're attempting to double the effectiveness of your resources per tier, so that your abilities cost less?

Explain to me what you mean by Mechanical Energies.

[D10]

The ability to predict someone's movement based on their mannerism analyzed. However, I can remove this effect if that doesn't necessarily make it viable.

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I've seen it as a T1 skill on a tree. If need be, I can link it. Depending on how recent it was probably determines whether or not I can keep it as a T1. If not, then I'll take a moment to decide if I want it as a t2.

I assume I am not reducing or increasing the amount of damage i'm taking, simply allowing myself to weaponize my body. This was meant to be used in tandem with Morph.

Would it be 5-10 per tier? And if not per tier, would I be able to siphon simply 20 MP and have the temporary pool increase in size?

I was trying to find a way to word it, when I originally made this. It's simply locking someone in space, however it's also locking the mind. If that is not possible, then I shall reword it to lock the afflicted in space. And would the limitation to the injection be based on the temporary pools?

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Is there a way I can make this work at T3? I.e. reducing the size and/or limiting myself to polygonal shapes.

It's draining more now, and i assume once we finalize the limitations of Transfer MP this will be altered in accordance. Also, not sure how the cost is affected. I'm simply draining more, dealing more damage, and allowing for both MP and DP to be injected at one time.

"I actually asked if it were possible to negate the force of physical attacks and was told I could. By mechanical, I didn't know what to use besides force and physical, so I mean energies such as kinetic or potential. Can I just say that physical attacks are affected? I.e. a hammer comes down and I negate its force, however I couldn't do it to a fireball. Essentially it'd just effect the melee game."

That was in response to when Marigold asked. I honestly don't know how to word it.

EDIT: Elaborated in base that it was teleporting. Sorry, my bad. I didn't mean he moved fast enough to dodge.

Also made changes to Transfer MP/DP, Inject and Maximum Injection

[D10]

Reworked, once more. I apologize.

I kept the very last skill so the questions with that can still be answered as before.

Would Bones be necessary in order to weaponize my own body or can I just make myself sharp using the base?

[Game Master]

Unsurprisingly, making it the base ability doesn't make me more okay with an ability that allows you to rapidly alter your size, shape, mass, weight, and probably to a small degree your density as well if we take the next logical step of you describing how the movement functions with the vague limitation of a defined total volume. You're going to need to be more specific with this.

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For Extensions

They are very simple and contain no abilities but the capacity to have an ability module.

This module would be a synthesis item bestowing abilities.

Clarify this.

Upon reviewing Far Reach, at tier one I don't know that it should have both a scaling range and leave you unaffected to your abilities affected by it. While they aren't particularly powerful on their own, the scaling range as written seems like it would be towards the top of what a Tier One skill could do, and adding the self-imposed immunity to it even if it makes sense just feels a tad much. I'm not going to actively enforce that, but I do want that sentiment noted.

The vague nature of the base ability did not prevent you from becoming as sharp as a sword.

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Because of the nature of Zero Sum, you will need to be more clear. You are immune to Kinetic Force exerted by other entities upon your person. You are not negating this Kinetic Force. It is not in the nature of Space to negate. Nothing is what negates Kinetic force. While Space would have several methods of doing what you would attempt with this, those methods are at best technically equivalent to negation. They are not true negations. Please reword the ability with that in mind.

[D10]

Would it be alright if I didn't shrink, but only expanded and any form of shrinking would simply be the shifting of proportions? Also it functions by using an innate ability to alter space, bending the laws of physics. Basically bending the matter that makes up Ezekiel. I don't think its farfetched, compared to people exerting their maximum strength potential with a simple touch. I can separate the flight into another skill as well. Also, if need be, I can use the base for polygonal shapes as said before and invest a later skill to increase the complexity of this. I would like to note that he is manipulating his body much like someone manipulates an element. There are characters having some form of elemental manipulation that reaches a far greater distance, however if that is through continual investment in the skill tree I could possibly invest one in T1, T2 and T3. Or to make it easier, I can state in the base that I am giving up a slot in one or two of those tiers, possibly all three in order to give it the complexity it needs.

For Extensions, I simply mean I can create a synthesis item that can grant abilities to the items I make via this skill.

Can I remove the range scale or make it every other tier and keep the self-immunity?

If we can come to an agreement on the base ability, I may replace this skill

Wouldn't force be something that can be created AND destroyed by space? Would the wording, "Ezekiel is immune to kinetic force" work? or "Ezekiel uses space to remove kinetic and potential forces on contact". Don't forget mechanical energies involve both kinetic and potential and the two go hand-in-hand.

[Game Master]

I obviously did not know that the base ability was space. Nothing in its description or the subsequent skills in this tree or its previous iterations could have possibly indicated such. I'm also not aware of the implications of the space element, so thank you for clarifying these things to me because otherwise I never would have known.

You may grow or shrink. I would advise flight being a separate ability, likely located at T1. I would also say that the shapes can be any complexity, but that you can only manipulate as much matter as you have in your body. This is where I'm going to break down why this is not the same as other forms of elemental manipulation.

If a person manipulates fire, they can only manipulate fire. Without something else to create said fire, they have nothing to manipulate. This applies to all elemental manipulation- they aren't creating the element. They're interacting with it. The way your ability functions, its implied that you are creating mass and matter where their isn't any on top of controlling it freely. Or, you might just be spreading your mass through an area. Either way makes sense with the logic your using, but that's not where the logic breaks down.

You're applying too much to the space element in this specific instance. It is simple to apply and create kinetic force, but under this logic one could then manipulate that kinetic force in a complex and detail-oriented manner. In fact, under this reasoning they'd be able, from the get go, to use Kinetic Energy with surgeon-like precision. Yes, it is matter manipulation, matter creation, reality bending, gravity altering, even potentially theoretical concepts and more. This is because Space is an advanced element. It covers a wide range of of potential uses, and can be very powerful. But it still has limitations. You can use space to influence matter and reality, but what you were asking the ability to do is something that I believe would definitely require slot dedication to reach its full fruition.

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Alright, please make that abundantly more clear in the wording of the ability.

I already mentioned I'm not going to enforce this at this time. At this moment, this is one of those things that I'm going to allow in a very specific case to see if it works out. I simply wanted my feeling stated. The reality is, that realistically that would not create a major unbalance, but it may. In this case, I'm not inclined to disallow something small as it is on a maybe.

And once more, this is where your logic breaks down. If we're looking at it from what Space is, which you've either selectively disregarded or simply forgot right here, Matter and Energy can neither be Created, nor Destroyed. Space does not destroy energy. It would redirect or convert it. Further, Kinetic Potential does not exist. You're referring to the concept of potential energy. Kinetic Energy of an object is relative to the state of other objects in the environment. If you are standing still, and a bullet whizzes by your head, that's an example Kinetic Energy at work. Potential energy is independent of other objects in the environment, and is instead related to the status and position of the object in question.

Mechanical Energy is the sum of both kinds of energy, and you were correct on that point at least. However, there is a clear misunderstanding on your end as to what Mechanical Energy is.While Kinetic Energy is derived from the object in comparison to its environment, and Potential Energy is derived from the object independent of its environment, Mechanical Energy is associated with motion and position of an object in either a real or isolated system. In layman's terms, Mechanical Energy is not only the sum between Kinetic and Potential energies, but one of the main means of conversion. Many devices today use Mechanical Energy to create electricity, and a common side effect of all processes where Mechanical Energy is converted is Heat, in either large amounts or small.

Mechanical Energy is essentially what governs a pendulum freely swinging within a clock. If that pendulum were to then hit a solid surface, such as a hand reaching out to stop it, this would be what was called an Inelastic Collision. That basically means that due to internal friction from hitting something solid enough, Mechanical Energy is converted into Heat and Kinetic Energy. This is what creates the force that would act on you if you were hit by a person. There's a reason that people cite Kinetic Energy for use within martial arts more than they would Mechanical Energy.

Back to the original point, Energy can not be created or destroyed. It can only be changed. You will not be able to negate or destroy either Mechanical or Kinetic Energy.

To answer your question, you could have from the beginning merely stated that you were in fact immune to Kinetic Energy. But, since we're know balls deep in physics I now feel you will need to explain where that Kinetic Energy is going or what it is being changed into since apparently we now strive to use realism to justify fantastic concepts.

[D10]

Altered the base ability, is that fine? I added the clause that I don't just have to manipulate myself, but it's an either or thing. I also replaced Bones with a flight skill.

Also replaced Consume with the ability to generate the extra matter as I'd assume without it I'd have to shrink some parts to expand other parts. Kinda like the berserk nobody from KH2.

Added that the ability module would be a slotted synthesis item.

As for the realism aspect, I get super conflicted between fantasy and realism when you also hop between the two in cases that require it, so I don't know what you consider to be a case that doesn't require it. So simply, I take the force and I displace it elsewhere. This would be some random point where the force is placed far away from the combat. Taking the force and pretty much throwing it out without doing anything but remove and displace from the origin. Also you have noted immunity can be detrimental so if I were to be immune to kinetic energy, what would that entail?

Would I be able to allow my T3 skill uncap the size limitation or would that be a later tier? I assume the latter and would likely be a T4?

What tier could I have immunity to my elements being punished if at all possible? I know that would be a great defense with the integration of space. And that comes with the risk of easy punishment. Unless the last skill would count as an immunity, whereas I don't think it would be with how it is worded because someone could be immune to such a skill, not sure what kind of immunity.

[Game Master]

No, it's not alright, because you're still focusing on these dimensions even after I've asked you to make it smaller. So, let me put this in perspective.

You are attempting to become an object that is 20 Meters x 20 Meters x 20 Meters in size. For those who don't use the metric system, that's 65.6168 feet x 65.6168 feet x 65.6168 feet.

This is equivalent to 8,000 Cubic Meters, or 282,517.36(rounded) Cubic Feet.

That means to adequately display how large that is, I have to give you a Volume in Liters and Gallons. The largest private swimming pool a person can typically buy, whose dimensions are about 7 Meters by 14 Meters by 12 Meters only holds about 33,300 Liters. That's 8796.93 US Gallons.

You essentially become 8,000,000 Liters, or 2,113,376.62(rounded) US Gallons. The Olympic Swimming Pool doesn't even come close to equaling you in size, that size being 2.5 Million Liters or 660,430.13(rounded) US Gallons. You want to be able to just make that.

The average volume of the human body is 66.4 Liters, or 17.54(rounded) US Gallons. So, you want to increase your size by approximately 120,481.93 times. From the get go. Which was my main problem from the moment I read this ability. Even if you aren't increasing your mass, you still retain your endurance tier in accordance with our stats, and giving you the ability to move and control it and yourself and other objects however you want?

Even with restrictions, that is beyond far too much. That walks right into the realm of either you just picked an arbitrary amount and didn't realize what your own ability that you wanted was actually capable of doing (which is bad practice), or you knew exactly what it was doing and thought that I'd be fine with that. I must dispel any illusions just in case: I am not. You can feel free to hazard a guess as to why this is too much if you'd like.

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If that condition were true, your base ability would read differently than defining a maximum cap. All that would be doing is reinforcing the mass you already control with more density.

It's simple: the more specific you are in creating situations analogous to reality, the more strictly regulated they are in comparison to other abilities that are not. When you try to justify something due to reality rather than just keeping to a fantasy or supernatural explanation that is well thought out and believable, this will be the result. Keep this in mind. Also keep in mind: when Mechanical Energy delivers Kinetic Force it also creates heat due friction. You may be able to redirect the Kinetic Energy, but a mere immunity to that doesn't protect you from the heat and friction. So, you aren't going to be ricocheted everywhere, but you might feel a very unpleasant on impact. Other people go with the Kinetic Force so the friction and heat are reduced. You're redirecting it. Since the method and the means are undisclosed, and you are essentially making yourself into the ultimate inelastic force, it would be logical that you take greater damage as a result due to the incredible heat and intense friction. The person you fight would likely be better off than you, though they might also experience lesser versions of these effects.

You will never be allowed to uncap the size limitation we decide on. Please cite the math above on why.

There is are no Immunities to specifically for punishment effects.

[D10]

What would be reasonable dimensions? 5x5x5? Even if it doesn't scale.

Alright. I am finding difficulty on how to properly make it. I apologize if I don't know how to do it. I know staff aren't supposed to do anything for hte members, only help but I truly don't know how to do it without limiting myself. It's a t3 skill and I don't want to waste a slot on something that won't benefit me. I also asked before I added this to the tree if space could counter space by eliminating forces, and was told yes. However I had issues wording this type of thing.

That's what I assumed, just making sure.

Are we able to have one?

EDIT: Could I make the skill cause physical attacks on contact to have their momentum and such nullified to where they'd have to refire the arrow or swing the sword? I want to be able to, on contact with someone swinging their sword and stop it. So, like I said, they'd have to re-initiate the attack. I was told that someone has something similar to this.

[Game Master]

The more specific you make the numbers, the more I'll be forced to limit you. This is why I prefer to use small, moderate, large and more words of a descriptive but vague measure when determining any sort of range. I would advise using something like small or moderate instead of relentlessly pursuing numbers. You have no numbers for anything else in the ability except that specific condition as well. It creates a very peculiar and unsettling dissonance.

You might have to break it into two skills, as the characters you've specifically been told about were likely either Nobodies, Replicas, Superiors, or Dark Replicas. You could just make two skills. Or, you also should consider your base ability. You have given unto yourself using the base a malleable form. By making yourself solid, you lose your only advantage against the heat that comes from friction. It may better you to find a way to use your ability to alter your shape to help the Kinetic Force dissipate as well as mitigate the damage from heat and friction. Indeed, know that liquids or soft solids do not tend to suffer as much from friction versus a harder and more stable solid object. Due to the loose nature of the molecules of Liquid, they mitigate friction far better.

There are no immunities specifically for punishments, as I have said. So, no, you can not be immune to Punishment abilities. You can however be immune to certain effects of theirs or damage, as Punishments do not bypass or override your existing immunities.

As I had touched upon above, but will repeat here, very likely one of two scenarios occured: the first is that the characters in question have access to the Nothing Element. The second would be that the characters used space element to create an immunity, and by not pressing the issue of wording and science acquired a less regulated variant of the ability. Though, I will say I do not recall the second type of immunity to Kinetics having come into existence on this website.

[D10]

Pretty much what I want to do with the base is be able to weaponize his body and open more options up for his speed and agility to be used, hence the t1 ability as an extension of it. Also, it isn't that I'm pursuing numbers, I'm using it as a limitation so I don't end up having unlimited range. I also have no numbers for anything else because it only augments my proportions. The base ability causes me to shrink one part to increase the size of another. Say I want to turn my arm into a giant ax-hand. Or I want to produce spikes from my body, even allow myself to move like a supersolid.

So you're saying I could use my base ability to make myself elastic enough to where contact time increases, which could essentially allow myself to conduct the energy back through in the form of, say, a punch. I.e. Zuko shooting lightning back by conducting it through his body. Not the same thing, but I hope you get what I mean by the analogy.

Also it was something of Veara's if I remember correctly, just something I was told about. I was also informed after my post that it was a duration-based thing, not a always-on immunity and that it was T2. As for what I had asked, I did ask if space can counter space in such a way and was told yes.

EDIT: also I apologize for right now, I don't know where my head is.

[Game Master]

Then you well overshot what you would need. I already said why you shouldn't use numbers, and the justification doesn't make it less of a bad idea. I've seen enough skill trees to know when numbers make sense, and when they don't. This is a case where the only provide a disadvantage. Saying, "at most he can expand to fill a small range" is not unlimited range. More over, clarifying intent doesn't change what the ability does. If the point is to weaponize your body through manipulation and increase your use of speed and agility, then you would not need such a huge and broad range of movement. You saying this makes me feel that you want to move in a borderline unapproachable manner rather than change how your character fights. If you truly wish to make the character weapon, then you need to focus on redesigning the ability. If this is meant to be a shape shifting ability, then having range makes no sense, because the range at which it is effective is set by the physical limitations imposed by the composition of your form. So, I would suggest finding a way to make the ability more clear about your intent, and less broad so that it looks that you wish to attempt doing whatever you want. So far, the only limitation I see on the ability is that one part shrinks and another grows, but this is flawed logic. Increasing mass in one limb would not necesarily be adequately provided for by shrinking another. Limbs do not necessarily have equivalent mass to one another, nor do they necessarily have the the potential to provide enough mass to increase density enough to make a weapon effective. Additionally that logic would weaken the ability, as it prevents you from simply transforming your limbs into weapons. If you really want to be a living weapon, google T1000. That may provide you a more adequate baseline.

No, I'm saying that if you make yourself softer, not only are you capable of dispersing the Kinetic Energy safely, but you won't suffer as great an injury by being hit. Definitely, the damage that would have been caused by friction and heat is reduced.

Given that Veara's approvals were done month's ago, and given that I had involvement with helping create at least one of his trees, I do not immediately recall whether or not I was actively involved with those approvals. More over if I were, if the ability was either to the point or curtailed by a simple but acceptable explanation, I probably was more inclined to be fine with it.

It's fine, but so far this approval doesn't seem to be going anywhere and that does you and I a great disservice by cluttering this topic with essays and dissertations on physics and associated principles, as well as attempts to clarify intent.

[D10]

Changed the base ability a bit. Would it be fine now? I actually sought out help so that I could finalize this so I don't waste any more of your time. I apologize if I'm dragging this on. I know realism complicates things, and this was a particular case that didn't need it. Also confused supersolid with superfluid, sorry.

Could I grant 360 sight with my base or would that need to be a T1 skill separate from it?

Reworked T3, there's a new one. Just in general added a few notes in things.

With my new third T3, would I be able to add a healing effect? If you saw a version of it before, you may have caught that it healed based on the tier of synthesis or size of the object consumed.


I've been done for a while with a response ready but was sidetracted. i appreciate your patience with this skill tree.

[Game Master]

It will be fine now. I will note that because of the previous attempt at incredible mass, we'll be particularly vigilant with regards to observing the use of this ability in the beginning.

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Separate skill.

Yes.

[D10]

Kk made it so consuming synthesis items heal him. I assume that yes was towards the healing question.

Again, sorry for the trouble.

[Game Master]

Approved.

[D10]

Changed Much DP to Much GP to reflect new summoning rules

Changed Neutral State to Option Select, completely replacing it as I have a spell and intend to have a party member with a similar skill.

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